Monday, June 26, 2006

Fessing up...

Hell, since I am dodgy Catholic (*wink wink*) then maybe this will come as no surprise to you. But I am tired of hiding it... I must come clean & reveal my dark & terrible secret much to my own shame...

I am addicted to the Harry Potter series, yes the very same condemned by the Church, railed by Bishops, and gathered up in large quantities and set ablaze by evangelicals while dancing around burning Potters in effigy... (ok, maybe some of that is made up)

My son loves Harry Potter. He owns a cape, a wand, and little round glasses. He has two prints of Harry Potter on his wall... within eye shot of the San Damiano cross no less.

I am also hopelessly fond of Ron Weasley & Professor Snape. Oh! The horrible shame of it all! This burden has been too much for me to bear.

I am starting a Catholic Support Group for Potter fans so we can come together and not live in shame anymore!

I solemnly swear that I am up to NO good.


qlinger said...

I just want to warn you that your movies and tv shows are not appropiate for a catholic. Sex and the city,Harry Potter and Monty Python are movies and shows that are dangerous to your soul. Harry Potter - I have read parts and was not impressed by the grammar or subject. Sorcery and witchcraft are to be avoided at all costs. Sex and the city, which I have not seen but the advertisments are enough for me to be able to know that it is a disgusting show that lowers people to animalistic behavior. The virtue of chasity requires that the eyes, body and mind stay pure. Monty Python I also have not seen and will never; it is enough to know that it mocks the church and people in the church. I caution you, seeing that you are a new catholic and hope that you will find more wholesome entertainment for yourself and your child.

Jay Anderson said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jay Anderson said...

Holy cow, CC! Where DO these people come from?

At one point today, I stopped and asked myself "Do I sound this stupidly self-righteous when I'm pontificating about some point of Church doctrine about which I feel strongly?"

If so, I REALLY need to re-evaluate whether I am furthering the Kingdom by my blogging.

I sincerely hope the previous post was a parody, and that my comment is therefore completely mis-placed. It reminds me of those who say that U2 isn't really a Christian band and that I shouldn't listen to them because Bono said "f*ck" in one of their songs.

Petrus said...

Jay - U2 really isn't Christian. They're huge supporters of Planned Parenthood and even paid their fine for helping young girls in Northern Ireland fly to England to kill their babies.

And, yes - I would say that you shouldn't listen to an artist who uses any sort of profanity and certainly not that particular brand. It sort of goes against the point, KWIM?

qlinger said...

I am amazed by your response. I know that U2 is not a christian band. I lived in Ireland for five years and saw first hand, U2 pay fees for planned parenthood, encourage contraception to be passed out to third world country, mock the church and promote the pro abortion cause in europe and Ireland. Furthermore the very fact that they used that horrible word is enough for all christains to avoid listening to their music.
I took to heart CC quote . My mistake.

Jay Anderson said...

I realize that U2 isn't a Christian band. My point is that it's not because Bono said "f*ck".

Madeline said...

Wow! J. Anderson and Carolina; you are both sooo right. Why shouldn't we patronize literature that glorifies wizardry and television shows that glorify unmarried sex? Why can't we fill our minds with profane lyrics and give our money to artists that will hand it directly over to every pro-abortion cause there is. We should absolutely keep our faith IN the Church, and not let it pollute our lifestyles!

I thought Catholicism was supposed to be fun. Are people like Petrus and Qlinger trying to tell us that sacrifice is required? How dare they! I wish they would take their self-righteous sentiments and go away... far away!

Sure, they can SAY they're speaking out of concern for our souls, but I think the things they've said are obviously about ... well, about something else. They go from blog to blog, crushing fun everywhere.

I suggest you block them from posting onto your blog 'lest they influence gullible readers into thinking that movies that mock the faith, and other forms of entertainment that promote promiscuity, wizardry and all other fun things are bad, bad, bad.

Petrus said...

Oh, right... the f-word using Christians. Those are the best kind. LOL.

Jay Anderson said...

I didn't say that. But use of that word, by itself, does not make one not a Christian. It's the sort of puritanical mindset that says "He's not a Christian because he said the f-word in that song" that I'm referring to.

But let's put it on the table:

A Christian whose primary fault is that he uses the f-word is better by geometric proportions than one who would, without proof, accuse a fellow Catholic of adultery. Or one who would defend someone who has, without proof, accused a fellow Catholic of adultery.

In other words, I'm not sure your kind of Christian passes muster either.

qlinger said...

Do you use such language? Do you allow your children to use such language?. I hope not, vulgar language is never appropiate and I think that it is better to be "puritanical" than to go to hell

Jay Anderson said...

Why the need to chase down rabbit holes? Is bad language REALLY what you think this is all about? If you're still having a hard time seeing what I'm talking about, see my previous post to Petrus.

In other words, if you'll go to hell just for saying the f-word, I wonder what falsely accusing a fellow Catholic of adultery will get you?

What about failing to apologize and/or seek forgiveness once you've learned that your accusation had wronged the falsely accused?

What if you continue to blame the falsely accused for not adequately explaining why your accusation was false?

What about if you persisted in defending the accuser even after you had learned that her accusation was wrongful?

Which is the Lord likely to look upon with less favor?

qlinger said...

I thought that this subject was about CC's post on Harry Potter . I didn't realize that you were hung up on a previous subject. I guess that there is no point in discussing any topic.

M. Alexander said...

My Dear Jay,
I did not accuse Carolina of committing adultery. Who is being puritanicall now, not to mention flamboyantly theatrical? Are you a defense lawyer by any chance? LOL I was hoping to prevent any type of adultery from occuring- thereby ruining everyone's fun!

I'm not looking for favor from people or to win a popularity contest. If something is wrong it is wrong and if you stand by silently and let it continue you are just as much to blame.

Were you all only children by any chance? I cannot imagine making such a mountain out of a molehill but I was lucky I grew up in a family of 9 children and we've never taken ourselves too seriously. Darned cradle Catholics! Carolina would have called us a freak show (see her conversion story) but that's okay.

I don't get myself bothered by what other people say about me. Especially when they are wrong. I suppose when someone hits on the embarassing truth is when I really get defensive. But again, that's just me.
Good night. Sleep tight and dont let the bedbugs bite!
Mary Alexander

qlinger said...

Thanks mary for all you do. It is nice to find someone who is not afraid to stand up for the truth. Oh and did you know that U2 was considered a christain band? Maybe you can let the kids listen to them.

Jay Anderson said...

"I thought that this subject was about CC's post on Harry Potter . I didn't realize that you were hung up on a previous subject."

Given the nature of CC's Harry Potter post ("dodgy Catholic", "up to no good"), and the immediate condemnation of it (along with a reference back to the previous post - "Monty Python"), it's hard not to take it in the context of the previous post.

Oh, and who said U2 was a "christain" [sic] band? Not me. I merely said the use of the "f-word" in one song wasn't the disqualifying factor.

Jay Anderson said...

Flambuoyantly theatrical? Are you calling my sexual orientation into question?

Seriously though, Mary, surely you recognize how hurtful and offensive the original comments both here and at my blog could be to CC, especially since they turned out to be untrue.

Even now: "If something is wrong it is wrong and if you stand by silently and let it continue you are just as much to blame." We know that nothing was "wrong" except CC's unclarity in her post - something which could have easily been cleared up in a private email. If you believed you needed to admonish her, Scripture as well as charity calls for such admonishment to first be done personally and in private.

As for me, I probably have taken my own involvement in this matter too far. I'm not a defense lawyer, but I am legally trained. I think I would have backed off with an acknowledgement that this was all a big misunderstanding. But the blame kept being shifted back to CC. I found that profoundly unfair.

Finally, if I have been uncharitable or overzealous in my "defense", I apologize.

aaron said...

Anyway back to the subject... I've never read Harry Potter but I have always taken the view that anyone prepared well in their faith (adult or child) should surely be fine readying the books. It's the same with The Da Vinci Code.

qlinger said...

I have to disagree with you Aaron. People said that the colosseum was just entertainment as well.
There are plenty of wholesome books, movies, and tv shows that are not going to drag you down. Should we allow ponragraphy for art appreciation and for those who are able to handle it?. No matter how well prepared you are in the Faith you can still be tempted.
These are things that do not foster the Faith, life is hard enough and trying to stay a True Catholic will only be made harder if we persist is reading or watching entertainment of a questionable subject.

Carolina Cannonball said...

thank aaron, thank you for the reason & sanity. :)

oh BTW... "I solemnly swear I am up to no good." is a cathc phrase in the 3th book... not a declaration that I am trying to start trouble... it was any other catholic potter fans to get a giggle out of...

Holy crow people!


Carolina Cannonball said...

I know a very devout priest who writes for the Wanderer & absolutely loves the Sopranos.. what say you?

Another priest at my parish loves John Wayne & shouts YEE HAW when the bad guys get shot. That's not exactly wholesome either.

Perhaps I should let them what you think of their entertainment choices.

Jay- sorry you got sucked into this trifle.

qlinger said...

Well all I can say is that I spoke in concern for you and your son. But I see that my comments were not appreciated or welcomed, it was kindly meant.

Carolina Cannonball said...

your first post was appreciated. i do agree that we should guard our eyes & ears from things that are harmful and could cuase us to falter in faith.

Things that might make ME faulter in faith might be reading too rationalization literature for other religions... I avoid them with all costs. I know my weakeness.

A fruit of the Holy Spirit is growing a disgust for things un-holy...yes.

However; to piggy back on Aaron's comment again... I do not think the series is particularly harmful to me and I enjoy them. I have enough intelligence & clarity of thought to not try to join a witch's coven simply because I think Ron Weasley is the tops, kwim?

We can amicably discuss that nature of this post... of course all comments about how much fun the series is are welcome too ;)

all OTHER COMMENTS about the nature of my "staus" and my adulturous filthy infidel pig of soul can be kept with the comment below. LOL.

qlinger said...

Since you encourage me to continue the discussion, I will gladly.
The biggest problem I have with Harry Potter is: all things that appear to be good are always unveiled as evil and corruptng. But all that appears evil is really good and life saving. This is a dangerous mind set to get into especially for a child. They have a very difficult time discernig between reality and fiction. We as adults have the difficult task on deciding what books and movies would be Faith and character building.
I cannot see how Harry Potter endorses either.

Jay Anderson said...

Mark Shea has a post about Harry Potter today, and the Chrisological nature of J.K. Rowling's story line:

"Harry Potter Must Die!

"... and rise again. The entire logic of the story demands it of this heavily Christological figure.

"I mean, the woman has said in interviews that she doesn't discuss her Christian faith publicly much because she doesn't want to give away the end of the story.

"This is why Lifesite News is so clueless with their anti-Harry campaigns."

Christine said...

qlinger and petrus, can you both please post a list of every tv show you watch? and while you are at it, a list of every movie you've seen and every cd you've listened to?

I guarantee that I would find something I could call inappropriate in those lists.

I agree that we need to careful about what we watch or listen to.

But you both were very judgemental of cannonball.

"Let he who is without sin throw the first stone"

"Judge not lest you be judged"

"Don't worry about the speck in your neighbor's eye...worry about the plank in your own"

Any of this sound familiar?
Any of this ring a bell?

qlinger said...

None of you get the point. CC posted on her blog things she enjoyed watching and was going to be no longer ashamed to admit it. I commented, not in a judging but cautioning way. I don't see why I am now being marked as judgemental. I spoke in concern and would do so again. I thought that this was a good subject for discussion but I see that despite CC ccooments I am not welcomed as she did not post my last comments.
Oh, Well I tried.

Angela Messenger said...

Right on Chris!

Petrus said...

Hi Chris, and Angela:

I thought the point of Catholic fellowship was to encouraged each other in seeking to live holy Christian lives, not to assuage each others consciences in our so-called 'guilty pleasures'.

I'm tired of giving my opinions since they are unappreciated, but I would refer you to the Holy Father's opinions on this subject.

Carolina Cannonball said...

actaully qlinger, I do welcome your comments. I did not receive any email verification giving me the option to post your comments. I hade received a few emails already about the comments being temporarily disabled (I just wanted some peace for a bit) but I enabled them again, so please post away.

Carolina Cannonball said...

you wrote:
"I thought the point of Catholic fellowship was to encouraged each other in seeking to live holy Christian lives, not to assuage each others consciences in our so-called 'guilty pleasures'."

I guess I did not blog about my love of the series bc I know there is a huge anti-potter compaign and those who enjoy the series have been labeled un-Christian if you will.

While it does deal with magic & witchcraft, I enjoy the theme of good vs evil. Wizardy aside I have found it to be perfectly benign. The CG effects in the movies are too intense for young children.

For those who condemn it, do you watch bewitched or even the wizard of oz?

Please don't ever be tired of expressing your opinions. As long as things are kept amicable & do not extend into personal attacks we should all have no problem.

Just curious, the ones that don't enjoy the potter series- have you read the books or watched the movies?

Chris- you made some good points. It seems that I am at a disadvantage because I do not know what other commenters chose for entertainment.

Petrus said...

CC - you would only be at a disadvantage in not knowing other people's entertainment choices in that if you were seeking to make personal attacks. I find that line on this site to be fuzzy to say the least, yet I enjoy the debate.

I did read the first three books as my niece was reading them, and I wanted to be able to discuss them with her. She tired of the series and I was happy not to have to read them anymore.

In the ones that I read, I found two specific points to be very disturbing - and I'm sure that if I describe the scenes, Potter aficianadoes can fill in the details.

The first was the creatures in the flower pots whose scream would kill you. These creature remind me of that "kill the fetus" video game where children are made to be evil creatures whose presence and company are not just annoying but are actually harmful to you. The simile to babies cannot be ignored and its creepy and weird. The description turned my stomach.

The second instance was in the book when Harry's actions to save the school or something break the spell for the elderly couple, ensuring their almost immediate death. They make a comment along the lines of "death is but the next adventure". What I found so creepy about that was there was an altar boy in my parish growing up who killed himself, telling his friends that he would meet them in the graveyard three days after he died. This fixation with death taken out of the context of the faith is creepy, weird and dangerous.

CC - I understand that you find it to be perfectly benign, but I'd still like to hear if you think that the Pope is being puritanical in his condemnation of it. Do you think he's being overly dramatic? Do you think that he probaby hasn't read the series and is just listening to fanatics? If that is the case, the I wonder why you would choose Catholicism at all.

Carolina Cannonball said...

petrus- again... why so personal? Would you suggest in an off handed why I leave the church all together simply because I enjoy the series?

And I not sure what what line you are referring to as fuzzy either. My disadvantage about not knowing your viewing choices is not for personal attack but for comparison.

did you read the link provided by Jay. It was pretty interesting. There was a lot of detail about the Christian symbols in the series. It's worth a read & would be interesting in your comments regarding that.

I too did not like the mandrake scene. But I thought the line "death is the next adventure" fine... I bet heaven is very eventful.

No I dont think the pope is being puritanical- just in better posistion to condemn me then say... the average blog reader *wink wink* now I am off to read your link

Rick Lugari said...

Here's what Papa had to say about Harry Potter Question

And then there's this:

>You'll never look at little Harry the same way again.


sam said...

Good Grief!!! Some of you sound like you should be working for Pat Robertson. And, believe me, I should know what it's like over there at the Christian Broadcasting Network...because I did work there. Hello everyone! I'm CC's mother; yes, the one she's written about a couple of times. I'm also the evil, sordid influence who got her and her son interested in the Harry Potter world. And...oh, yes...I'm Catholic as well. It's like she mentioned the name Harry Potter and you all suddenly closed your minds and reverted to Puritanical times. Get a life! Find something that really matters to vent and raise your blood pressure about. It's a wonderful series, with very interesting characters and storyline.

Aaron, God bless you for your voice of reason. You are absolutely correct. If one is strong in his or her beliefs and love of God and the Church, then nothing (not even a fabulously-written adventures series about a young boy) can assuage your faith. Read the books, you narrow-minded zealots,and see for yourselves. It is the epitome of ignorance to vehemently run off at the mouth about which you have no knowledge. You make yourselves sound stupid. You know nothing about the symbolism of Harry Potter, which will become crystal clear at the end of the 7th book.

My daughter and I both read "The Da Vinci Code" and I saw the movie. This only increased our faith and gave us even more reason to "pooh-pooh" the whole Mary Magdalene as Jesus's wife idea as ludacrous.

As CC's mother, I don't appreciate some of the comments you made to her. She is one of the most devout Catholics I've ever known. Try and keep to the subject at hand and don't make personal attacks. Throwing stones is not very Christian. And, by the way, why do you think "the Wizard of Oz" has been such a beloved movie for more than 40 years?

Carolina Cannonball said...

Rick... the movie trailer had me in tears! Hey mom - check that out. The second link in the reply above yours.

Thanks mom for your reply! :)

Madeline said...

Sam and CC;

If I'm not mistaken, CC volutarily opened up the discussion re: Harry Potter on this blog. The point of posting a topic on a blog is usually to invite comments from those who have similar and/or opposing views. If the intent is only to entertain comments from those with whom one agrees, then I apologize for intruding (However, in subsequent posts from CC, she states that she welcomes comments from those who have stated opposing views (qlinger, e.g.), so I'm guessing my apology isn't really necessary).

Many tangent topics had been brought into this discussion, but, unfortunately, very few posts have been about the objective value and/or danger of the Harry Potter series. Most threads seem to degenerate into name calling. Is that really the level of discussion you want, here? A couple of examples are below:

Jay's posts have implied that 1. Qlinger is "stupidly self-righteous" (or at least she sounds that way). 2. M. Alexander is a worse Christian than one whose primary fault is using the 'f' word (I wonder how he knows that?).

Chris's first post calls Petrus and Qlinger "very judgemental."

Sam's comment implies that those of us who don't think that the Harry Potter series is wholesome entertainment are "close-minded, and Puritanical," "narrow-minded zealots," "ignorant," and "stupid" sounding. After which comments she closes her post with: "Try and keep to the subject at hand and don't make personal attacks. Throwing stones is not very Christian..." ROTFLOL!

In light of this, it is with some trepidation that I suggest the following: even though one may be intellectually and/or emotionally impervious to an all-out frontal attack on chastity, piety, and charity; it behooves us all to beware the subtle effects ones choice of entertainment has on ones soul. It can work like a slow poison.

surgite et coffeam olfacite said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Carolina Cannonball said...

"it behooves us all to beware the subtle effects ones choice of entertainment has on ones soul. It can work like a slow poison."

agreed. Is the only objection you have to the Potter series it's use of witch craft?

I guess my point is, I really should not be afraid to admit I like something that is deemed unpopular among Christians. I am sure each of us likes something that is not exactly 100% pure, be it a favorite TV show, musician etc.

Originally I had no desire to read the books. Then I saw the movies & thought "gee it's not so bad- what was all the hoopla about?" So I decided to read the series to see if the movies had edited out the satanic overtones... nope. I enjoyed the little adventure series and didn't have any problems with it.

If the worse I do as a Christian is read Harry Potter (out of all the other crap that is on TV, on the radio & In theaters) then I am doing pretty good.

Surgite: you're post was removed because we have alreay established no personal attakcs will be tolerated. You DO NOT TALK ABOUT MY MOMMA!

SoonerScotty said...

First of all, Harry Potter ROCKS!!!

Second, I don't understand how the Potter series is different from Lord of the Rings or Chronicles of Narnia...They all deal with wizards, witches, magic, good and evil! Yet, Christians have embraced Chronicles and LOTR, so why not Potter?

You know, kids aren't as dumb as people seem to think they are. Yes, very young children may not understand the difference between fact and make-believe, but the age group that HP is directed to definitely do.

If anyone was going to dabble in magic/sorcery/occult it definitely wouldn't be because of HP. People who get into to that sort of thing have other issues that need to be dealt with, but reading HP probably isn't one of them!

I too solemnly swear that I'm up to no good!

Carolina Cannonball said...

hey sooner. Well that makes 2 Catholic Potter fans.

You make point. Would someone care to make distinctions between Potter & LOTR and maybe Glenda the Good witch. :)