Monday, July 20, 2009

the papist prerequisite...

... it is with charity that I say this to my single female readers... No, you will not find the man of your dreams at mass. You will not exchange glances from across the pew and thus begin a whirl wind romance ending with an "I do." finale. I won't deny that a few woman may have met their husbands in church but they are the rare, very rare, exception and not the rule.

If you are in your mid-thirties, such as I am, the choices are "married", "never married and WHY is that?", and "30 years your senior". It is a given fact. One that I have accepted.

Which is why I have no longer decided to limit myself strictly to dating Papists.

I can hear it now... the sound of gnashing teeth waiting to rip into me. Before you wield your self appointed papal authority just hear me out and try to understand from where it is I come.

There was a time when I would never consider dating anyone who was not a Catholic, they just couldn't possible understand where I was coming from on matters of faith and morals. Turns out...

A Catholic man will be just as appalled as a protestant man that you don't put out by the third date. In fact, I have yet to personally meet or date a single Catholic man who actually practices all he professes to believe on matters of sexuality and reproduction.

Logically, it no longer makes sense to me to drastically limit my dating resources to a single religion if they are no distinguishable moral differences?



Adoro said...

Cres, I understand and I'm praying for you.

Men suck. There are very few quality men of ANY religion.

I hope you find one of the few, and that one of those few good men finds you and becomes Catholic.

Nothing else is acceptable.

So glad I know I'm not called to marriage. The dating scene sucks and is totally not worth it.

Kelly said...

I have no problem with what you said. Just make sure you convert him :) Shouldn't be too hard for you I would think *wink*

Joe of St. Thérèse said...

Men are stupid, we're a complete waste of time...

Full fledged Papist who sticks to 100% of Church teachings absolutely no compromise should ever be accepted.

I'll remember you at Mass this week :)

r said...

Recent converts are the way to go. Look for a protestant ready to jump ship. ;)

Anonymous said...


Don't even THINK about it.

Women are kooks, too. There's a reason a woman of thirty-five lives alone with a cat. Everything you say about men holds true for the fairer sex.

The last thing you want is to find yourself married to a committed Southern Baptist. You don't need a list of the reasons.

Have you tried I attend an FSSP parish, and my wife and I are good friends with a wonderful couple (nice looking, employed, and normal)that met through the web site, and they were both forty-something when they did.

Give it a shot, and you're in my prayers.

Anonymous said...

looking for the perfect husband?

have you considered your calling as a "bride of Christ"?

Elizabeth said...

Relax, skip the, "church" will probably not be the place...but TRUST GOD!
HE knows when the time is right and the person, too...though Catholic Singles IS a good resource. Most men are just like most women. Neither of us are perfect. I met my husband at 31, married him at 32 (he was 42). We met through his son who was in an art camp I was teaching. We are expecting our 4th in Nov. He was searching when we met (had been raised Lutheran)...He's one of the best converts I know (8 years ago)!!!
God bless & relax!

Julie D. said...

Well, thank goodness. If my husband had only dated Catholics I might still be a single agnostic wondering "what's it all about" as I wandered looking for my soul mate. It took marriage to this good man and God's use of our children to being me to knowledge of Him and then of His Bride, the Church. For all you know, God's been waiting for you to open your eyes to the fact that your true love is just waiting for conversion in addition to meeting his soul mate. :-)

Rita said...

My parents met at Mass. They married as Catholics, but are now seriously lapsed from the faith, meeting at Mass doesn't ensure fidelity to the Church and its teachings.

Mary Rose said...

I lean more toward Julie D.'s thoughts. I met my husband in an online Christian chat room. I wasn't expecting things to work out that way, but they did. At the time, I was away from the Catholic Church. My husband was an ex-Church of Christ leader. What was important to me was finding a man who was trying to lead a Christian life.

My husband is far from perfect but he loves me completely. I've returned to Catholicism without him but he supports me. We can't know the full purpose of why God allows certain things but can be faithful to what we do know. I know you are seeking and so does God.

I think churches are some of the worst places to try to meet someone. However, I can't see you being with someone who holds the Catholic Church in disdain. Still, that leaves a whole 'lotta wiggle room. You're smart. God will work things out according to His purposes. :-)

B. Hold said...

I am an Orthodox Christian and I've been struggling with the parallel dilemma. I wouldn't be opposed to getting to know a Catholic woman, or even a Protestant one, as long as they follow Christ and keep an open mind. But being married to someone that I'm not in communion with would be difficult. Not to mention the question of how to baptize and raise the children. Keep praying, I guess, that's all I can say.

Donna said...

Why don't you and B. Hold start a discussion :)

truthfinder said...

I was a devout Baptist when my husband and I met. He was Catholic, but he converted, and we were married. 35+ years later, I entered RCIA, became Catholic, and he came home to the Church. He was taught to respect women, and he was always a gentleman while we were dating. He is a quiet, shining example of a man who totally loves God; the teachings of the Church took root and flourished in his heart. I will pray that God will send you what you need. Single life can be lonely, but I have friends who compromised and "settled", and they are living in an even lonelier Married Purgatory.

Rosemary in Missouri

Claire Christina said...

My prayers are with you. My solution is to look not at Mass but still at Church - seeking out young adult activities in my area so as to meet people and give the Lord the opportunity to send someone into my life. The vast majority of Catholics who show their face inside a church for something other than Sunday Mass are people who truly cherish the truth and beauty of our faith.

Anonymous said...

Dear Mz Crezcat,
Ofcourse, I do not wish this for you, but this could be your fate if you hook up with a pagan:
Peace be with you,

Lola said...

The last thing you need is more advice so I wouldn't dream of giving you any.

But, I will make a suggestion.

Ask St. Joseph to find you your husband. I'm serious.

I mostly dated men who were Protestant or UnBaptised sorts. Oh, and I didn't hold that against them as long as they didn't give me any lip about my RC upbrining. My daddy was raised Southern Baptist, and I love him forever. But, my mother always said it's very lonely to go to mass by yourself with your children.

I can't tell you the relief I felt when I first met my husband, on our first date he told me he was RC.

I met him the year I made a novena asking the Good St. Joseph for help in finding a career and a husband.

Oh, and don't forget, women set the 'tone' of the relationship. What are you willing to put up with? Everyone's not so perfect but you don't have to put up with the "put out" mentality. Maybe by the time the Mr. finds you he's realized a thing or two about the quality of the relationship, the fun, and the wonder of not rushing everything.

God Bless you Cat! And, go ahead and ask the sweet St. Joseph to help you find a good husband.

Anonymous said...

CC- What Jon said. Sactimonious and defensive does not become you, and besides, it works both ways. The mistrust and contempt for men you don't make much effort to conceal will sabotage your dating and any possibility of a serious relationship, so- you better find a way to LET IT GO, or you will be single for a long, long time. Dating and relating require you to take risks and make yourself vulnerable. If you don't have the nerve for that, better sit out the dance. Chances are you will get hurt; that's real life. With God's blessing and guidance, you will find at least one man who would never, ever hurt you, and would die to protect you.

I'm sorry Adoro finds men to be such a sorry-ass lot in general. That street runs both ways, sister Adoro; ask any man who has dated in the last ten years what he thinks of the neurotic, insecure, commitment-phobic, baggage-toting (sound familiar?) single women he's dated.

Oh, btw CC- are you free to marry in the Catholic Church?? If not, better get working on that annulment, assuming you have grounds, because in the eyes of the Church you are still married, and that will (or should) stop a real Catholic man in his tracks, no matter how hot he is for you. I know it has me, several times.

And then there's 'The Boy' factor. You are not looking just for a husband, but for a volunteer step-dad. That will reduce your pool size. I know many women execrate Dr. Laura, but she holds firmly that single mothers should not date or re-marry until their children are 18 and out of the house. Tough- but true?

You are defintely a glutton for punishment, but hey- 'it's the only game in town'. If you do jump in keep your guard up, at least until you find a man you can trust.


TheSeeker said...

Ugh, dating! My mom felt bad for me the other day and sent me a link to I swear! Hilarious. But seriously, I sometimes feel that guys who aren't religious are sometimes the easiest to deal with and the most accepting of my life. They respect my religion and even want to learn about it. They're much more likely to come around religiously in the end, and they're much less likely to impose any viewpoints on you. So...I think you're on the right path. I'm right there with you.

Agnes B Bullock said...

I disagree with Crescat, for once. I met my husband via, and he never expected anything before we were wed. We married after a 15 month courtship, and he was a virgin on our wedding night (I however being a divorcee with a valid annulment, obviously was not) I was 39 when we met, and he was 32. Don't give up hope Crescat- I amost did, and only renewed storming heaven with my Miraculous Medal Novenas- I think I was doing nine a day every day, by the time I met Geoff.

patrick finley said...

For the record, my wife is a convert. Her conversion encouraged and forced me to become a better catholic, SOO there is good that comes from going "outside the box"

Also many of the first christians no doubt took pagan wives who were in the process of conversion, so I wouldnt let doctrinal issues scare you away. Look at it as an opportunity to evangelize the true faith.

steve vickers-buckley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carolina Cannonball said...


I was not referring to you, you were exemplar in your faith. If anything I proved to be a stumbling block.

I apologize if you read it that way. None of my references past or future have been directed to or about you out of admiration and respect.

This post refers to a recent decision I have made after a few unsuccessful dates since our break up.

steve vickers-buckley said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Carolina Cannonball said...


Just to clarify; yes, I am free to marry within the Church.

And no, I do not harbor any mistrust or contempt for men. I am just bothered by the ones that say what you want to hear initially then behave in the exact opposite several dates down the road. I am sure the street goes both ways but since I don't date members of the same sex I can not appropriately comment.

Yes, I am aware of "The Boy factor" and realize it is going to take a special man to be worthy of us both as a family.

My point is that I no longer believe that worth I seek is solely to be found within the Catholic faith.

Cathy_of_Alex said...

Crez: Loneliness sucks doesn't it?

There are distinguishable moral differences between the Catholic faith and others. We all know not everyone follows them or believes them but I know you do. What are you going to do if you hook up with someone from another faith tradition who thinks contraception is fine, abortion is acceptable, and homosexuals should marry? Fight and argue.

I find it hard to believe that every Sunday as you are trekking off to Sunday Mass and your significant other is staying at home to watch the football game that you are going to hold your tongue.Problems will ensue.

I've been there and I'll tell you, it's hard(er) to hang onto faith when you are with someone who does not regard it with as much earnestness as you do.

I find some of the comments in this thread disturbing-making blanket judgements about the opposite gender is uneccesary.

Furthermore, I'm sure Crez is already well aware of her state of life and doesn't need any catty insinuations.

Anonymous said...

DH and I grew up Protestant and I am now Catholic, but he is not. I can say from experience, the kind of Protestant man who won't expect you to put out is also the kind who takes his protestantism seriously. Save yourself the headache of being stuck with someone who thinks you're an idolater and isn't afraid to say so.

Anonymous said...

I hope things work out for you.

My wife was unchurched when we met - but later learned she was attracted to the Catholic Church for a long time (her cousins were Catholic). She decided on her own to go through RCIA and did so before we were married. We've been married 17 years and have 4 kids. We were married when I was in my early 30's.

But one thing to consider (it's not a show-stopper) - what a man and women are created for are fundamentally different, and in the best circumstances the man should lead the family in faith. If it goes the other way around, it will be more difficult, but not impossible.

But as Chesterton said: "The whole pleasure of marriage is that it is a perpetual crisis."

Dymphna said...

Hey, I'm not going to knock you. I dumped a nice Catholic boy to marry a heretic and lived happily ever after. The heretic converted (it took 15 years) and is today a far, far better Catholic than I am.

On the other hand, I know one couple who met at adoration.

Snupnjake said...

Why do you need a man anyway? I mean I know men and women have different functions and all that jazz.

I just seems like you are hell bent on getting one quickly.

I want a guy as well, but I don't need one, if you understand what I'm trying to say.

I would start volunteering. Where do you expect to pick up a guy if you are only at school, work, or Church? Certainly not the bar...cause don't think he's going to change after the vows....

KimP said...

I tried limiting my dating pool to Catholics because, as a Catholic convert, my dream is to marry a Catholic. But I have lately considered that maybe my future husband won't be Catholic - two people are rarely in the same place on their spiritual journey. Maybe whoever the Lord wants me to be with will convert. I don't know. But I'm trying to be open minded while at the same time using my head to weed out those men whose character is not worthy of admiration. It is difficult to stay rational and try to discern what God wants you to do. And how he wants to use you. Praying for you!

Anonymous said...

I am a single Secular Carmelite and that DRASTICALLY limits my dating pool....more fish for you :)

I've actually received more snarky comments about my Catholic faith from actual Catholics than from others...go figure.

Plus the fact that you are a single mom, going to school and I assume working?? Doesn't leave much time for socializing. Lots of guys might assume you're too busy for them..happened to me..

If you are looking to meet people to do things with try a local Catholic singles club, or start one in your parish. I was a member of one for quite a while, all different age groups, and we really did some fun activities, from plays to hikes to picnics to football and baseball games, even going to the Cathedral. Yeah it's really beneficial to go out and play with ADULTS once in awhile.

Carolina Cannonball said...

Snup, why do I need a man... well ... 1) I enjoy the companionship 2) we are not met to be alone 3) raising a child on my own is hard; very very hard 4) I want more children and have no desire to be the mom of a teenager in my 60's 5) I like men and want to find one to spend the rest of my life with... just because this is my preference doesn't mean I am weaker than all my strong single sisters... it means I am know what I want and am not in some pseudo feminist denial.

I'm not saying you are; but that is the tone I get from other woman when I say I love men and need one... it is almost an unfathomable confession to admit that in this day and age.

Newnews said...

I was in my late 30s when I married my husband, a Protestant and by far the most honorable man I had ever met (especially compared to the cultural Catholic "boys" who were around. He was willing to go through the annulment process for me (although it really riled him since he could not understand why he had done anything wrong in ending a bad marriage) Fourteen years later he became a Catholic . God answers prayers.

Dirtdartwife said...

I was a lapsed Catholic when I met my "non-denominational-non-baptized" husband. Even though it took durn near 12 years, he came into the Church this past Easter. I reverted back when we had our first child and although his family is quite the hateful, anti-Catholic bigots, I held onto the faith that God was using me as His instrument to get to my husband and I wasn't to force His hand.

Pray that St. Joseph will help you find a husband and let God do the rest with the man's heart. :) It's worth it!

Sarah said...

If my husband hadn't been opened minded about dating a non-Catholic, I wouldn't be Catholic today (most likely). So, go for it! But, still stick to your principals and the true teachings of the Church. I will pray for you and your future spouse.

Rose said...

I found someone who didn't go to church much at all and he converted. When I was asked how I met a Catholic man in the South, I answered, "I made my own." We're coming up to our 19th anniversary next month and we have seven kids, aged 17 to 3 months.

It can be done. Bless you in your search.

P said...

I have no judgments, no gnashing of teeth, but one serious concern.

I didn't see it in your post, but there were several comments of the "don't worry, just convert him" variety.

For the love of God, please don't marry a man in the hopes that he'll change.

St. Margaret Clitherow couldn't convert her husband, don't assume that you will be able to.

Unless you are absolutely, perfectly content with living your ENTIRE LIFE married to an unbeliever who will never "possibly understand where [your are] coming from on matters of faith and morals" - don't do it.

Please don't try to marry a fantasy man who doesn't exist as anything but a delusional projection onto the future self of a very real man who is not who you want him to be.

If you meet a man, and you honestly think he would make a good husband (despite not believing that marriage is a sacrament), and it is really that man that you wish to spend the rest of your earthly life with - then by all means, and God speed.

Well enough from seem like a sensible girl - just keep your eyes open. And good luck!

Anonymous said...

Well CC, you really started a nice brawl with this thread, eh? But hey, that's what keeps your blog interesting.

Follow your heart, but also guard your heart. When you meet the right one, you will KNOW, and so will he, although maybe not as soon as you, most men are not as quick on the uptake as women.

Religion is a big deal, but not the only deal, as a lot of the commentary reflects.

Pray for guidance and direction. As much as you are able, live in God's will, as you are given the light to discern it. Although we all say "good luck" as a matter of habit, there is no such thing as luck, only grace, and there is no such thing as a "coincidence".

Follow your heart.

"ONE time our good Lord said: All thing shall be well; and another time he said: Thou shalt see thyself that all MANNER [of] thing shall be well." Dame Julian of Norwich.


Sebastian S. said...

Hmm... tough situation. Don't listen to the others peddling their's

My heartfelt recommendation to you, Ms. Cannonball, is
And their sister sites:

Seriously, that's where you will find the Catechism-pounding, Rosary-grinding, fanatical pro-life uber-Catholics.

Best wishes and prayers.

Sebastian S. said...

... that should have been 'Catechism-thumping' ... sorry, my Engrish not so good, yes?

Babs said...

I agree with "P." Marrying someone with the idea that they will one day convert is a lousy way to live. Put yourself on the other side: would you marry a Mormon if you knew that he ultimately figured he'd convert you?

Cathy_of_Alex said...

CC: So, what's his name?

Carolina Cannonball said...

just tp clarify... I am seeking to convert any man. As long as they are open to my Catholicism, willing to attend mass and have future children reared as Catholics...ok. I know I ask a lot. But I earnestly beleive two people can succesfully have a marriage respectful of differences.

Cathy... what gave it away? wait.. um. What? I mean... I have no idea of what it is you refer to?

Therese Z said...

I see an awful lot of married people all ages in church, without their spouse. I feel sorry for them. I know one whose husband is a devout Presbyterian, and I feel less sorry for her, because he's at church, too, just not hers. But I know lots more whose spouses are home, scratching and watching TV, and I don't think I could handle that. (I am D/A (divorced and annulled), and when I was married, I was far from faith, but inching up on it. I don't know if I could have had the same breakthrough given the relationship we had settled into....)

Cathy_of_Alex said...


L said...

just stumbled on to your blog by way of "ironic catholic." good stuff you got here.

i am a modern catholic woman in her early 30s who has been in an amazing relationship with a non-catholic for four years, and i can tell you that it has only increased my love for and relationshp with the Lord--and my love and respect for my boyfriend--even more than i ever could have expected.

my boyfriend was in presbyterian seminary when we met. at first that scared me because i didn't really know if i wanted to be a minister's wife (should our relationship grow to that place), but he was such a man of faith and goodness that i decided not to dwell on it. i decided to let God guide us. and the fact that my boyfriend wasn't catholic wasn't that big of a deal because i knew he loved the Lord with all of his heart and that, in my eyes, was a beautiful thing. bonus points too because he was eager to learn more about my faith (just as I was eager to learn more about his beliefs).

he left seminary roughly a year after we met because he realized that wasn't the path for him. he felt God was calling him to something else (he's now in graduate school for counseling). our relationshp has only grown stronger in the past four years. he attends mass with me on sunday and then after mass we go to his church to worship. we support each other while we practice our faiths in our ways. on sunday nights we read from "the complete idiot's guide to catholicism" so that i can brush up and he can learn more. we pray together every day. we love the Lord and trust in him completely. and i believe our relationship is a great witness to how fruitful opening one's self up to others--regardless of their religious affiliation--can be.

we've already met with a priest to discuss marriage, and after hearing our story, the priest said that WE should teach his pre-cana class! we will be getting married in the near future, and i have no doubt that the Lord brought us together so that He could work through us. and as for children, we will raise our children with the knowledge of both of our beliefs, and we will make sure, first and foremost, that they know that beauty and love of the Lord.

i'll keep you in my prayers.

with love from pittsburgh...

Anonymous said...

I was in my 30's when I met my wife, a recent convert. We met of at all places a friend's 4th of July barbecue. She was raised Episcopal, and her parents who had fallen away were friends with my fraternity brother. As a Police Officer who worked a 4 on 2 off steady 4-12 rotation with a weekend off every 6 weeks in my thirties I had almost given up hope. (When I was 22,23,24 I could always scare up a couple friends to meet me at a bar at midnight, not so at 32.) If it's God's will you find someone. Similar to a watched pot, working too hard makes you look desperate. Relax, got to school, work as a nurse, you will meet all kinds of people, doctors, nurses, paramedics, patients, and probably cops. Stay faithful and let God's will happen.
I will keep you in my prayers,

For what it's worth I married my wife, a dental assistant while she was working. She became a a full time mother when we had our first child. We are now on our 6th and she home schools the children above my misgivings. Leave room for God's plan, and have faith.

Debbie said...

I had to post....I was 2 months from my 39th b-day before I met my non-Catholic hubby. We met in March, engaged in June and married in November. Been happy for the past 6 years. Two kiddos later, I am grateful, I didn't limit my choices. Stay true to your faith. God will stay true to you. I do not believe there is a "rule" that you have to marry a Catholic, you just need to agree to raise your children Catholic.

Miss Heather Barrett, OP said...

I think it's a very good and reasonable decision you've made. A while back, I too decided that I need to be open to non-Catholic men.

These days, a good, moral, strong, stable, mature man is altogether hard to find, and sadly, religious affiliation is no longer a reliable indicator of whether he does or does not have those qualities. Anybody can call himself a Catholic; it doesn't necessarily mean a thing any more. Conversely, non-Catholics can have those qualities in spades.

I pray to St. Joseph and St. Raphael. I also pray for my future husband, whoever and wherever he may be, that God will bless him, guide him, and help him prepare to be a good husband, just as I am currently preparing to be a good wife. And that, when the time is right, and we're both where we need to be, God will unite us. (And I do hope it will be soon!)

Let us pray for each other!

Hilary Jane Margaret White said...

When Anne Roche met John Muggeridge in Newfoundland in the late 1950s, he was a more or less non-practising Anglican. She had just got out of the convent.

When John died in 2005, he was surrounded by his loving family, including Anne's cousin, Fr. David Roche of the Toronto Oratory, of which John and Anne had been supporters for 30 years. He died in the odour of sanctity in the Holy Faith, clutching his Rosary and was buried from the Oratory's second parish, St. Vincent de Paul, in the fullness of the Traditional Latin Rite.

Dating non-Catholics is not a bad idea.